December 2000
Interview with Anton Newcombe
By: Ben Vendetta
Vendetta Mag
[Ben]: The thing I wanted to talk about most, at least at the beginning, is your contract dispute with TVT. Could you give some background on your contract and why you're having problems now?
[Anton]: It's kind of interesting because the way I see it is a label is set up so you have a person who's a visionary of a label. Frank Sinatra started Reprise Records. Of course he didn't run it so he didn't have business affairs. Frank probably wasn't interested in even having the label after a while. He was more interested in getting away from Capitol at the beginning so in the meantime there comes a Board of Directors. My label in America is TVT and it was sort of acquired by a lawyer--according to my information--who kind of fought a lawsuit on behalf of somebody who owned the label. It was called Television Tunes and the guy said you know, basically, these people are making CDs of a song I wrote for a TV series I wrote and I want to sue them because they're not paying me enough so the lawyer goes "How much do you want?" He said, "O.k., we'll get that."
He went to go sue them and ended up owning the label and just paid the guy the money. He like literally sued the shit out of them. He started doing television reissues. They've been doing all kinds of stuff. They've got Snoop Dogg, they've got Sevendust, XTC, Guided By Voices, Gil Scott-Heron; they acquired Wax Trax, numerous things. They've got their own trip and it just changes every day They're pretty much the new major label. They have their own distribution network and they continue to go worldwide. They have offices and distribution networks everywhere.
The owner of the label, Mr. Gottlieb, Steve, it got to the point through his A&R guy, which is my A&R guy Adam Shore, young guy who's cool. You know, I made CD-R's and showed him all the stuff that I had done. Took it out of context, and Gottlieb said "look, you've got to get these guys." I was kind of rude to him and all that stuff. I kind of blew him off like everyone else I met when labels started to get really interested. I eventually called him back and it was kind of like I remember sleeping in Oklahoma on somebody's couch and I got this call in the middle of the morning and the owner of the label said, "I'd really like to want to talk to you. I'd like to come out and see you." I go, "Unfortunately, I have other commitments, let me check my calendar and we can set up a time. Is June 7, 2000 o.k?" This was like three years in the past. That's what I said to him basically and he said, "I'm sitting out here in The Hamptons and I'm listening to some of your records right now and I'm really digging this stuff and I'd really like to sign your band." So I said, "That's possible. I'll have my people talk to you."
So, basically, he gave the Business Affairs the o.k. to sign the band within reason. Well, the Business Affairs knew my lawyer so it was a kind of situation where they were already friends and they set up this contract and we just went through it clause by clause. I don't think they even got a chance to offer us something. We just kind of went down and made a contract and it was signed. My lawyer went through it clause by clause. He's an entertainment lawyer, Barry Simons, and he's been my really good friend for a long time. He's really supported me for almost the whole history of the band and he said "this is not unreasonable." He brokers deals all the time for bands and so that's cool. And the guy (TVT lawyer) just said, "Yes, yes, yes" down the line and we just put in everything in one thing by one thing and they okayed it and they signed the contract. It's all worded when you read it so that a layman would think it was written for TVT but it's just like pointing out their rights. Within the realm of that, it's all about my rights. Do you understand? Instead of talking about me, like I need this or I need that, it's all this is what he can do.
We kind of tricked them in a way because they ended up firing the Business Affairs guy. It's insane; nobody has a contract like that. In my contract they had to exercise the rights. Like they set down budgets. I am the producer. Normally what happens is Butch Vigg or Steve Albini or whoever get assigned to band-of-the-week or whatever. You work out all the details and get a recording budget. Everybody knows the story. The producer gets like 60 or 100,000 dollars. You probably get about $125,000 for the recording if you get a real record deal and not a demo deal. The producer gets at least $60,000 for recording it and everybody buys instruments and there's all this shit that has to happen and that money is gone. I'm the producer so I get that money and there's nothing they can say about that.
[Ben]: So as far as contracts go, you have as much complete control as possible?
[Anton]: Yeah, because you can argue with the producer and they can argue with the artist but it's still the same person and the first thing I did was make them sign a contract to say they're not allowed to do business with me. They're not allowed to talk business with me. It doesn't say that I can't tell them what I'm going to do. It says that they are technically not allowed to discuss business with me.
[Ben]:So they go through your lawyer to talk to you?
[Anton]: It doesn't really specify that. It just says that they're not allowed to talk to me or one of my friends. That's all. They're not allowed to discuss business with me. It's not appropriate. An artist who represents himself has an idiot for a representative and that's how I explained it. I'm not interested in that. It doesn't really matter if I am absolutely interested in that. The matter is the perception. People could just get off on a tangent on something like, you should focus on this or you should focus on that. It just makes it easier. The other thing I did that is kind of interesting is that I encouraged my A&R guy to get a two-year contract with this label so he could not get fired as a part of the deal. The whole thing about that is your A&R guy is somebody else's nightmare because most people who know what's going to catch on and how big for the amount of an investment? They put real money into our band but unfortunately they can pay people like Sevendust $60,000 for masters that already exist to sign them to a deal and they're fucked. They're just fucked. They're selling 800,000 copies and they [the label] are making pure money. I would venture that, realistically, those guys haven't made a penny except for playing. It's pure money but it's not going to the artist.
I was like I'm not expecting to ever make a penny but my label has to pay for everything. The way I look at it is that when people sell their labels-and eventually they will because an individual owns this label and labels are sold. Even Seagrams buys other people's labels. People with great visions get out of it. All of these companies are started by individuals and they're turned into conglomerates and then it's just a catalog. The label is deactivated. Columbia becomes Sony and 550 or whatever the fuck they're called. The whole point is that certain artists become important for the catalog. Leonard Cohen is important to the Columbia catalog. It doesn't matter if he was critically acclaimed in the 60's because those magazines aren't available except at garage sales or weird shops or on Ebay. The artists who make good records become an asset to a catalog. I guess what I'm getting at is New Kids On The Block sold millions of records but nobody in the world goes in and buys a New Kids On The Block album today. It's completely meaningless and worthless as a back catalog. People don't understand that The Doors didn't sell more than a couple hundred thousand copies when they were number one in the 60's. They went over Platinum in the 80's and sold millions of copies. It had already been recouped and written off. It was just pure capitol when they repackaged that shit. They actually became popular in the 80's. They were insignificant as far as money goes in the 60's. Elektra was making money and growing but the value of money changed over time and the value of the business changed and they became significant in the 80's. They were insignificant in the 60's even if they were number one. You have to remember who all the number ones were. They were just faceless masses.
Anyways, back to my contract, as it turns out I believe that my label is in material breach of my contract and we're just working on that. It got complicated. They fired the Business Affairs guy when they figured out what my contract actually was. The reality of the situation when it really sunk in was kind of like any other label. They developed a little bit of apathy. The problem is one of the clauses in the contract is that they had to notify me if they were going to exercise the second option on every album. If I put out an album six months later, they have to start paying me for the next one or I'm released from my contract. They notified me as far as paying me money but I told them that I was going to take a year or so to record the record. I did what I said I was going to do and they started freaking. The point I'm trying to make is that it's not going to reflect on me. Nobody's going to say, "Oh my God, Anton's lost his fucking mind. Oh my God, these guys are raving lunatics. They're so unprofessional." They're going to say, "You guys are fucking idiots for signing that contract and giving him everything." That's the coolest thing about it. It doesn't reflect on me whatsoever. It reflects on them and the best thing they can do is we're resolving it but unfortunately it takes a lot of time. It doesn't deter me. I bought my recording studio with the money that the industry throws at bands. I didn't go out and buy a Porsche. I couldn't give a fuck what they do. I'm not Cheap Trick and I'm not chained to those things. I like producing bands. I did the Smallstone record in my studio and I make other things happen. I don't care. My band is not that important but my freedom is.
[Ben]: So, basically, you can't put out Bravery, Repetition and Noise until this gets resolved?
[Anton]: No, basically, I can put out EPs and do all kinds of other things. The thing is I am hoping to resolve this because when I work on a team with somebody, I want our team to succeed. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. Ultimately, what could happen is I could sue them, take the money, not give them songs or the masters, and as a settlement for the hassles, get off the label. I just choose not to do that right now. I'm giving them every opportunity in good confidence that they won't be stupid idiots. Ultimately, I do not fucking care. The thing is I cannot be sued because I technically don't even have a home. I have nothing. It's all them. It's all completely on them.
[Ben]: I think the frustrating thing is for the fans who just want to hear the music.
Anton: I just played you a song.
[Ben]: Of course, but not everyone has that kind of access.
[Anton]: I can do other things too. I'm not a typical powerless person. My label does not get me laid, my label does not feed me, my label does not provide anything for me. What they do is manufacture and distribute records. Well, if you really wanted to put out records and you had a desire to do that, then that could be a problem if that was withheld from you. I have a tremendous back catalog and I have my own labels and I have the Internet and I have extensive mail order and pen pal and email connections with people so they have nothing. I could get it out to as many people as they could quicker. They would have to use my talents to get it out as quick. I don't care. I can share music. I'm technically not doing anything wrong by sharing music. There's nothing in my contract that says I can't give away music. I'm not asking to sue the world for their desire to appreciate art. I'm not asking to sit around like some old fuck in Sweden like Lee Hazelwood and have everyone pay my way everywhere, all the time. It would be nice if I could do a few simple things and be compensated by that. I wish everybody wasn't like I had a great manager for a while. He would have been the greatest person to deal with because of his personality. Unfortunately, he got greedy. He had the easiest job in the world. I did all the work. All you had to do was have the "Hi, I'm a fat fuck" attitude. He didn't have to do anything else besides that but unfortunately, people get greedy whether they're lawyers, record companies, or people. Who am I to think that I'm the one who can do this? It's never been done. Everybody gets caught up in weird shit. This isn't stopping me from anything. I'm just working on other stuff.
[Ben]: It's obvious that you spent a lot of time working on the songs that you just played us.
[Anton]: This is like much more important than the whole contract shit. What's really important to me is the fact that I'm going to be 33 on August 29 and my music and my desire to do things or any of it has nothing to do with my age. It's not like it's getting worse or anything. I'm getting more focus. That's cool because you don't know. You think a lot of things and you kind of cling to them. You could get in your first relationship and you could say, "I don't like you going out. I don't like you looking at boys. I don't want you to do this" because you think it's all going to go away. That's the way you lose everything because you cease to exist. You cease to being in the moment because you have all your fears. I don't have that and I'm happy these days because of it.
[Ben]: I know for a while you were living a bit out of the way in Laurel Canyon. Do you feel better now that you're in the heart of the city so to speak?
[Anton]: It's hard when you isolate yourself. A lot of people have these dreams that they're going to work really hard so they can live up in their ivory tower and not have to deal with the fuckers that pass by. The more you isolate yourself, the more you develop these opinions about people and their ways. You look at all the people driving by in their range rovers on their way to Starbuck's with their cell phones in their hands and you go, "What a bunch of fucking cunts" but really you don't know that. Of course, you're right some of the time but there are also people just going about their business. They're perfect lovers, wonderful parents, brilliant artists, generous doctors and psychologists. You just develop these assumptions the more you isolate yourself. You're not really in the real world and you don't get a chance to be surprised because you made up your own mind that people suck. It's important not to isolate yourself. I thought that while I was working on some of my other life long problems that I've had about my assumptions about people and the way they were, that I might as well throw everything out and just become who I am. It was like that final last blow. I got everything that I wanted and then what? Now I just want to be me so I can give up all of everything else besides what was practical like my toolbox. Yes, I still have a zillion Vox guitars. Yes, I still have a recording studio and all that shit but I got rid of everything else so I could focus on my ability to open a clear channel of communication with people and be understood and not waste my time. When you decide not to be around negative people or whatever then you can go back on your own thing. Desperate people are scary. Desperate people are dangerous. You can make a decision when you're strong enough and take one of your friends who's depressed and show them that they're not thinking incorrectly.
[Ben]: Your new songs seem to be a lot about love, like in "Open Heart Surgery" you're really opening up to the girl in the song.
[Anton]: That song was kind of like a first to me. The thing about that song is that it's about Tara Subkoff. She goes, "Write me a song", my girlfriend. I go, "I don't write people songs" and she goes, "Yes, you do. You have this song about your ex-girlfriend." I said it was kind of general and I didn't realize it until after. She said, "I think you're full of shit" and I said "O.k., whatever" and I sat down and wrote her a song. I was happy when I showed it to her the next day. I had recorded it. She kind of smiled in a way but I could tell it was like what happens if somebody said "Paint me a picture" and they paint you the Mona Lisa of yourself. What could you do? Would you be saying, "My nose is not quite right." That isn't the way other people see it. When they look at the Mona Lisa, they see the beginning of a new kind of realism and this subtle beauty and contentment. The smile on the Mona Lisa, whatever. It's the beginning of something else. It's this tranquility and content. It's not tepid. There's actually an emotion that comes through it. Not only is it a characterization of a person, there's a contentment communicated in still life. That's what the song is too. Everyone else is like "Wow." When Tara heard the song I could tell she didn't understand it. I could just tell. She doesn't appreciate art because she's a frustrated artist. I talked to her and she said, "That's like open heart surgery," so that's what I decided to call it.
[Ben]: There seems to be a really good scene in Los Angeles at the moment with bands like you, Beachwood Sparks, Smallstone, and Black Rebel Motorcycle Club. One thing that impresses me is how everyone seems to be friendly and supportive of each other instead of being competitive. I was wondering what your thoughts were on the subject?
[Anton]: I can't be in competition with anybody. I really can't. I can't be afraid of what other people are doing. I like people that are likeable. If you want self esteem, you have to do things that give you esteem. To the change the world you have to actually change the world. I can't really speak readily for how anybody else feels about anything. I'm just not in competition with anybody and I'll do anything for anybody who is worth helping. I would do nothing for my enemies. They'll destroy themselves. From my spiritual beliefs, I know for a fact that anybody who has opposed me on a gut level for some stupid reason will destroy themselves because they're not focused. They're worried about other people. They're not concentrating on themselves or their art or their gift or making people happy. They're worried about whatever they're worried about. They're not focused. At this point in life, it's important for me to be focused.
[Ben]: You mentioned on some of your emails to the Brian Jonestown Massacre list that you were working on a Pet Sounds-type of record but then you decided to make a more rock `n' roll record. Some of the stuff you were just playing us seemed to be more trippy and mellow so where are you at in terms of the vision for the new album?
[Anton]: I am writing songs from my heart. One of my EPs I want to call 20th Century Rock. Too many people say, "You just wish you were from the 60's, man." I am from the 60's so they can't say anything about that, really, people say a lot of things. They never shut up. The thing is I thought it would be funny to call a record 20th Century Rock. I can tell people that it's not 60's music; it's 20th century rock! I thought it would be cool to put out a record of really cool stuff and call it 20th Century Rock so I'm copywriting and trademarking it, so fuck all you guys! I also want to do an EP where I cover the Ride song "Vapour Trail" with Miranda [Lee Richards]. Instead of a poncey guy from Oxford with a bad attitude and a bit of a lisp, I have the most beautiful girl singing the song. Those are the words you want to hear from a girl. Any woman would listen to that and say, "That's how I feel." Any man would go, "Wow, she's singing to me." It just completely opens it up to the whole world by changing the gender. I've always been interested in that, now I'm realizing it more. I thought Bravery, Repetition and Noise, like what am I about when I started working on it, that's rock `n' roll so I'm going to stick with that. I always wanted to do harmonics. I've always done that with instruments because a lot of my peers at the time either didn't know the significance of what I was trying to accomplish or what we were doing. It was more, "What are we doing tomorrow, what are we doing tonight." I've always wanted to do harmonies so now I'm using girls and other guys and just doing it.
[Ben]: So your immediate priority is to get around TVT then is to release EPs on your own?
[Anton]: It's not to get around. It's to work until they decide they don't want to work anymore. I want to avoid some situation where out of business spite, someone says nobody in the world can hear what this person is doing. I'll go tour in Italy and let everyone record it. There are no copyright laws and they can export it and do what they want. I'll go play as myself. I don't care. The bottom line is I love to play music. I just have to have faith. My relationship with my lawyer is tight. The business is second place. He loves the music as much as you do. Not everybody is going to be that way. Not everybody wants friendship.
[Ben]: Who's in the Brian Jonestown Massacre these days, like for your live shows?
[Anton]: Joel's coming up to play some more shows. Matt's living up in Portland. Dean and Jeff are living in L.A. Jeff's in Smallstone, Dean's going to real estate school. Those guys are just people. I'm just playing with people. It's the same thing I've always been doing. Not everyone who plays music would even want to do what occurs to me as my inspiration. Not everyone wants to live a Spartan life like I do. I take the responsibilities. Weird shit happens. Sometimes people hop up and try to completely fucking kill me over singing love songs and that's just bullshit. I would just be content with playing songs.
[Ben]: It's obvious that that's what you're about so I just hope everything works out well for you.
[Anton]: I'm not worried about it because people are trying to kill love everyday. Somebody's fighting someone somewhere and they're killing people's kids everyday. All the love, all the time: breast-feeding, labor pains, schooling, education, every hot cooked meal for that kid, dead. It's really insignificant if somebody calls me a fag or something because I'm trying to sing a love song. I know that I cannot be defeated. I'm not going to get killed for singing a love song. That's not going to happen. Natural predators only prey on the weak and I'm not weak. I do care if people throw bottles and shit, that's bullshit. I have very sophisticated ways of dealing with that stuff but it's going to get increasingly severe.